Game #1262 Tournament game#58 | Round 7 : 2019 PBEM Duel Tournament #58

Saunatonttu vs  SpiritSeeker

Match Details

Rating 2 - Nice Game
Amount of Humans:2
Kind of Report:2019 PBEM Duel Tournament
Kind of game:   PBEM
Game-value: 1
Result Player Classes Races Team Points Extra Points Missed Points Quitter Rate
1 SaunatonttuNecromancerDwarves11890here
2 SpiritSeekerArchdruidElves200-27here
Posts to the game:
Published on Fri, 28 Aug 2020 03:10:23 +0200

Written by Saunatonttu


"If you were not eliminated, you would also get a warning."

It was entirely my choice to continue on, and, having received no response in a few days, I would have probably done it even without SpiritSeeker suggesting it to keep things moving, so he's not really complicit in any way. :^)

I had a misunderstanding about the strictness of the rule anyway, but that was my own mistake since it was made clearly visible.

Published on Fri, 28 Aug 2020 00:19:43 +0200

Written by SpiritSeeker
Hi Hiliadan, alright, I'll await your findings about the crash. 

Published on Fri, 28 Aug 2020 00:06:27 +0200

Written by Hiliadan

SpiritSeeker, I understand what you say but it's not really up to you to decide if you continue the game or not. If you were not eliminated, you would also get a warning. It's a bit like saying: "I don't care if people steal my home, I'm rich so I can give them." Yeah maybe but others will also get stolen later on, and they may not be as generous as you. Of course, you and we did not know about the details of the crash at the time so you might not have been stolen, but it's the same, you take a decision which is detrimental to all the other players involved in the tournament.

As a reminder, here is rule #4: "he player who crashed must not re-enter the game after the crash, he must wait for feedback from the judges allowing the game to continue."

Judges take measures following crash, which can involve having files checked by devs, or turns fully recorded to demonstrate lack of fool play. So no, there are other things to do than just play on.

Checking with other judges what we do following the breach of the rules. Answers in a few days. Now we have 23 days until end of round anyway (+ a time extension of 1 week to be announced).

Published on Thu, 27 Aug 2020 04:26:21 +0200

Written by Saunatonttu


Sorry for not waiting longer for responses to PM's, I guess we were both keen on continuing. I will gladly accept any penalty you guys see fit.

If I'm allowed to continue in the tourney, I will set up a recording software. It might make me crash every turn but at least I'll have better proofs when it happens :p


Cheers :^) I was really worried when I first saw your high lvl heroes tbh. As for economy, initially I had three "core" cities (and a fort), but they were fairly well developed and rich.

Published on Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:34:03 +0200

Written by SpiritSeeker


Ah, I'm sorry about continuing the game without approval... It was really my request actually, to just keep playing while you guys check the logs. In the end, there is not much else to do than continue, right?

I was keen on continuing the game so we could end it before the end of the holidays. Also, I prefer to assume that people do not cheat, it's maybe a bit naive, but well, what fun is it to win by cheating? And if someone really needs a fake win to feel good, let them have it ;-).

Crashes do happen. Luckily not often. I trust that the game would not have ended any different without the crash.

Again, apologies for not following protocol.

Published on Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:19:05 +0200

Written by SpiritSeeker

Ouch, losing a level 1 hero... And STILL winning ;-). Well done. Yes, I know I should never give undead the time to control neutral undeads, as things tend to get out of hand quickly then!

Perhaps I should have entered the underground at the north-east entrance on the small island... How many cities did you have, for you to be able to sustain such big armies?

Thanks for the game indeed!

Published on Thu, 27 Aug 2020 00:20:51 +0200

Written by Hiliadan

Guys, the instructions are clear: when you have a crash, stop the game and wait for judges' instructions.

Lacking time today but I was shocked to see the game was reported as you were supposed to wait. Especially since we ASKED Sauna to send the log and asked about video recording, which meant he was probably going to be asked to record.

So it's definitely going to be a warning for Sauna, but I'll check in details with other judges in the coming days.

Published on Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:03:15 +0200

Written by Saunatonttu
An interesting and tense game indeed. The game went exactly as SpiritSeeker reported. I lost my necro hero on turn 1 to a HALFLING INCIDENT WHICH I DO NOT WISH TO DISCUSS and it really took the wind out of my sails. There was no hope of going for any kind of rush after that so I chose to play a sort of a passive eco game and hope for the best.

I kinda got back into the game after I managed to control undead a few wraiths (one king) from nearby tombs around turns 10-15. They served as a nice backbone for clearing many sites afterwards. Also found two scrolls to help offset my otherwise sluggish early game, and pumped out a lot of reanimators to partially compensate for only having one necromancer.

When I saw his high level heroes approaching my lands at turn 15, I pulled together almost everything I had (3 stacks of mostly trash) to drive them away. This bought me some time to split and go clear more and produce more units. Soon I was pumping out one bone collector per turn, and I had a good layout where the pumping city was a focal point of my empire (two cave entrances right next to it, one of them on a remote island and none anywhere else nearby), so he would have to enter my lands there unless he went for a massive detour. I left my druid to lead this home defence army, which mainly consisted of bone collectors, reanimators and eventually spirit elementals.

Thanks to whispers of the fallen I was pretty aware of his army movements. When I saw that he lost a lvl 13 sorc, an elite queen spider and an elite storm sister, I felt my chances improving greatly. It wasn't a game breaking catastrophe, but I knew it would greatly diminish his map presence.

My leader stack went west underground, took an indie town and a giant dwelling, clearing a lot of stuff and ghouling a lot of good tier 3's (got decently lucky with these). Got a spirit ele summon spell from a wizard tower and started summoning those for my home defence army. Eventually emerged to surface right next to his core lands and took them (his defensive surround attack didn't work out, as seen from his screenshot :^).

Meanwhile my sorcerer's stack had went south to clear and emerged at his new city and vassal, hasty pludered both, and then continued west on surface to meet up with the leader stack. Turns out this wasn't needed in the end, but the stack did good clearing for gold anyways.

The final battle beetween my home defence army and his leader stacks was preceded with a lot of dancing around with the stacks and positioning. I knew I had the advantage at this point since I had a big eco and he had almost none so I didn't rush anything, just kept bringing in and summoning more units. Eventually he issued me a challenge to fight him instead of starving him out and the time was right to accept it, so we fought and the autocombat really did him no favors, as you can see from his report. That's why I like bone collectors, they're straightforward enough that the autocombat AI uses them pretty well usually. :^)

Thanks a lot for the good game SpiritSeeker!

Published on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 22:07:23 +0200

Written by SpiritSeeker


Interesting game! Well played, Saunatonttu.

I had a decent start. Not too happy with the neutral cities I encountered (2x undead) though. I had not lost a single unit in manual combat for the first half of the game. Did lose a lot of scouts to you though!

For a long time, I thought I was at the advantage, because my leader and heroes where much higher level than yours. We did have a close encounter about half-way, where you chased me to sea with a stronger army. I escaped and quickly got stronger afterwards. My secondary army joined from the south, and I thought I had an unstoppable army at that point. I should have attacked you head on then, but I took a detour. Also, you were smart to block my passage in a narrow tunnel, so I could not attack with multiple stacks. I had to go another way. Then things went wrong. 

When my leader and sorceror were both level 13, I decided to attack a sunken city with 3 sirens, on turn 28. It was plain stupidity, I was only looking at their dominate ability, which I thought I could handle. Their first attack round decimated my army with those 3 Siren's Wails, killing my sorceror, my gold medal tier 3 spider, and my gold medal Storm Sister, all of which I cradled from level 1 and baby spider/initiate.

This slowed down my plans a lot, because now I could not really split my army, which was my plan, to both defend home and assault your cities.

In the mean time you were taking my south-east cities, and I had not much of an army there.

I was happy with my replacement hero, a Theocrat, especially built against undead. But when you were surrounding my 2nd city, it was clear you were too strong. I tried attacking your 2 leader stacks with all I had there, before you could attack the turn after with much more. The odds were even, predicted the computer. Well... at least I killed an axeman and a wyvern..!

In the mean time I was leveling up my Warlord hero. He was quite a mean beast at level 11. At least... in manual combat. In our final fight he did not do much other that shoot his crossbow :-P. And my leader did not once use her lightning ability. She was just wasting mana on dispelling some buff on one of your units. And how about my storm sisters attacking your lightning immune units? :-D Well, AI stupidity goes both ways af course, so I won't hide behind that ;-). And your secondary army proved much too strong. It was quite the collection of bones! I was hoping to see my Warlord fortify himself in the middle of them, and Tirelessly slaughter everything that ran at him. And then slip away with his item to heal up and do it again. All the while having my storm sister stun your Bone Collectors and my archers tearing down your priests and summons. My leader would summon Ancestral Spirits and shoot stunning lighting from the skies. My brave paladin would charge your hero off the map. It would have been glorious! Here's what happened in stead:

By the way, the only reason I took Creation Master was because of the Bane of the Unnatural, in case you would take Undead. It never came up, unfortunately.

It was a fun and tense game. I had gotten kind of used to steamrolling my opponents with my fast-leveled hero stacks. I would almost never attack neutrals without a hero, in fear of 'wasting' XP. But I have learned that a number of cheap Champion units might be just as good an investment. They usually have more hitpoints than heroes! 

So, thanks for the game! I can finally sleep again, I hope ;-).

Published on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 21:42:56 +0200

Confirmed by Saunatonttu

Published on Tue, 25 Aug 2020 21:03:44 +0200

Good game. I underestimated his strength, because I was very far ahead with hero levels. But apparently, feeding XP to cheap units up to Champion III can pay off just as well or better!

Published on Fri, 21 Aug 2020 08:17:27 +0200

Ouch, that's unfortunate. I'd say, while the judges look at it, just continue playing, what else can we do ;-). I am hoping to finish the game before the end of the holidays, because I am losing (a LOT) of sleep over this game :-). It is just too intense, it is unhealthy .

Published on Fri, 21 Aug 2020 03:58:09 +0200

I just had a crash (on the last fight of a long turn that went really well, as is usual when this pos game decides to crash). I will send the screenshots and the log file (if I found the correct one) to the judges.

Published on Tue, 04 Aug 2020 03:27:20 +0200

Welcome back

Should be able to play daily from now on as well.

Published on Mon, 03 Aug 2020 12:44:11 +0200

I have returned and will be able to play daily again, most likely.

How about you, Saunatonttu?

Published on Sun, 02 Aug 2020 21:37:56 +0200
System notification

Round 7 : 2019 PBEM Duel Tournament #58
Please click here to read the rules. In order to avoid advantaging one team or the other, for each match, the team who will host the match was randomly selected. The first team in the "turn order" above (who is also the team on top in the tree here) must host the game. Any of the players in the team can host. Tournament Game #58 Round ! When players do not show up for their match, the Tournament Judges have the right to change the match!

Published on Tue, 28 Jul 2020 15:43:57 +0200

Alright, I have joined the game.

Published on Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:59:27 +0200

Hi there,

I have sent my class & race to Hiliadan.

I just returned from my vacation and will be gone again soon for a couple of days. So, I won't be able to play much or at all this week, so please don't set the timer. Btw, I actually prefer not setting a timer at all ;-). I can usually play 1 or 2 turns a day, but there might be days I can't play, so it is more convenient to not have a timer. If you agree ;-).

In any case, have fun!


Published on Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:08:27 +0200

Ok, we miss the "Few Dwellings" etc settings but since you used the Tournament settings, should be good.

We have both of you's class/race, so good luck & have fun!

Published on Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:18:41 +0200

Game hosted, password: glhf

Published on Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:37:59 +0200

Hi guys! Round 7 has started. Please send your class/race to judges.

Sauna, you're hosting: please use the main branch of the balance mod: (and SDNR), and post screenshots of the settings here as usual.